Twitch has temporarily banned a Lithuanian streamer after she cosplayed the Apex Legends character Lifeline using blackface makeup.
Over the weekend, Karina “Karupups” Martsinkevich was streaming herself preparing her Lifeline cosplay in Twitch’s “Just Chatting” section to roughly 160 viewers. Martsinkevich, who had dyed her hair and put on a white shirt and surgical mask, then applied a dark foundation to her face to mimic Lifeline’s appearance.
“On my stream, I wanted to show the viewers, how hard is to prepare for a cosplay, how much time the make up, costume and another details can take,” Martsinkevich said in an email to Kotaku.
The final result of Martsinkevich’s cosplay is what’s commonly recognised as blackface—when a non-black person attempts to caricature or present as a black person. It originated in the 1800s when white actors used shoe polish or burnt cork, sometimes on top of highlighting their lips or other features, to perform exaggerated and racist stereotypes of black people.
Martsinkevich’s stream was taken down before she could finish her cosplay preparation in what constitutes a direct denouncement of blackface on Twitch.
After announcing her apparently 30-day suspension, Martsinkevich posted a YouTube video in which she explained that she was banned for “engaging in hateful conduct against a person or group of people.” She went on to contend that she “just wanted to be similar to Lifeline from Apex … it wasn’t meant to have [sic] a joke of anyone. It was just a cosplay, guys, for my favourite legend from a computer game.”
The Twitch streamer says that she didn’t mean for her cosplay “to be painful for anyone” and apologised to those who were hurt.
Twitch did not respond to a request for comment.
In the cosplay community, blackface is extremely controversial and widely looked down on. White cosplayers of brown or black characters like Overwatch’s Sombra and Michonne from The Walking Dead have been lambasted for the practice.
While aesthetic fidelity can be a primary concern for cosplayers, altering racial appearance easily devolves into stereotyping and recalls the history of the practice. On top of that, black cosplayers have faced numerous barriers getting into the cosplay scene because, traditionally, there are comparatively few characters in video games, comics and anime who appear black or dark-skinned.
According to several black cosplayers interviewed by Kotaku in 2016, they sometimes receive pushback and criticism for dressing up as characters who are not black.
After her ban, Martsinkevich again posted the picture of herself in the cosplay on the Russian social media app VK. She added the caption, “Thank you for the enormous support. Thank you for not leaving me alone in such a situation. So, guys and girls, what do you think about Cosplay?”
If only she’d clicked on Cosplayers Share Their Top Selfie Tips [Sponsored Content].
So many chances for her to do so too!
This PC stuff is ridiculous.
Almost as ridiculous as the amount of ads this site has. 30+ ads between the story and the comments section. Good work Kotaku.
Word had it there was meant to be a fix for the ads on mobile… still waiting
Alex Walker has tried to get it fixed for us. They said it had been fixed, but obviously, it hasn’t happened
@alexwalker
Yeah I’ve flagged this with management. I was told it’d be changed, and that hasn’t gone through, so I’ve run it up the flagpole.
run it up the flagpole sounds like a euphemism for something unpleasant, i guess that is what management gets for not following your instructions.
It drives me crazy. Offence is in the intent, not the action. The modern practice of blocking this sort of thing ‘just in case’ has led to insane situations like this.
Want a different example, google ‘controversy about dambusters dog’ and look into the history of it. It’ll be immediately apparent why there was controversy (spoiler – its the N word), but a) dambusters was a real event, b) the dogs name in the movie was its real world name, and c) relevant because they’re doing a big budget remake of the movie.
So what should they do with the dog in the remake? Be accurate to history, or rewrite it? There was clearly no offence intended, but given the environment today, suddenly its an issue because of political correctness.
How about that Netflix exec that got fired because he said you can’t use the “N” word anymore and got straight up fired. Not using it in any context except for the fact he was pointing out you cant say a word. Preposterous the times we live in now, I mean I understand we must respect heritage and what not but I think a line certainly needs to be drawn.
Nah, a creator’s intent doesn’t matter anymore.
These days the mob now decides for others what their nefarious intentions truly were.
My last count was 52 ads on a page…. including about 20 of those inbetween articles and the comments. It’s pretty OTT
Adblocker my friend! i now browse in an Ad free utopia.
Nice effort on the cosplay. A good likeness to the character.While aesthetic fidelity can be a primary concern for cosplayers, altering racial appearance easily devolves into stereotyping and recalls the history of the practice
Only if that’s what you turn it into.
The most confusing part is that many of the people who are ‘triggered’ by this kind of thing weren’t even alive when segregation or blackface was still an acceptable mainstream practice. That, and there are a bunch of people who are vicariously ‘triggered’ through their ‘wokeness’.
Its almost like being offended on behalf of others is a sport for them.
On the contrary, I think they take it very, very seriously 😛
Sure. My wife never lived in apartheid Africa so… Oh wait. She did and this shit would be unacceptable even if she didn’t. This shit is unacceptable.
Ridiculous. More punishment from the over reacting PC crowd because of white American guilt.
If it’s not actually intended as a minstrel “blackface” – then it’s not blackface and thus not racist.
I think people need to remember that blackface is not a thing in a lot of countries.
Traditionally only the UK and USA had had this level of response to blackface
What she was doing was honouring a character, don’t see anything offensive about what she’s doing.
Exactly.
but america is the center of the universe and every country needs to bow before their history of because they are the progressive and greatest country on earth.
Amen brother!
Gotta love that (mostly American) guilt being pushed onto the rest of the world.
Love the hot takes here defending blackface.
Stay fucking classy.
No one is “defending” it, instead, aren’t complete morons when it comes to the guilt around blackface is mostly an American and small amount British, and those from other parts of the world, getting tripped up in our own Western guilt.
Yeah nah you totally are though. I knew going in that this would be one of Kotaku AU’s trashfire comment sections and I was disappointed to be proven right.
Blackface is bad, end of argument. There’s no “PC” about it at all.
Blackface is bad, but this wasn’t blackface. She wasn’t mocking anyone. She sincerely wanted to look like the character. Tell me how you think she was mocking black people.
don’t hold your breath waiting for a coherent answer to that question, they don’t have one
Caucasians blacking up, regardless of intent, carries inextricably racist under and overtones. Doesn’t matter if the individual is doing it out of love or hate, or if they’re naive or incorrigible – they’re putting themselves in line with leagues of racist action and sentiment. The individual may not be racist but the act, by dint of its heritage, sure as fuck is.
This was blackface. Whether someone does so mockingly isn’t the determining factor. Stop defending this shit.
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don’t think it is as simple as black and white, no pun intended. I respect your opinion though.
Yeah, nah, we don’t. Scrumptatoes is right, and you (and others) are trying to make excuses for why for why one of the most recognised racist acts against brown people across the planet, blackface, is not racist, Zamby. It doesn’t matter what the intent was when the end result was to emulate a famous racist action. You’d literally have to have been living under a rock since birth to not know this is not something that is at all acceptable.
I understand where you are coming from, but I would never condemn someone for legitimately trying to dress up like a superhero of another ethnicity. I sincerely doubt many black people would be offended at this kind of thing either. This isn’t one of those situations like those policemen dressing up to mock aboriginal deaths in custody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2_z9W6WnIY
You don’t get to tell people who have been subjected to racist shit for centuries what parts of that behavior they are allowed to find offensive.
Sure. But this isn’t racist.
As i asked above so does this mean that you are only allowed to cosplay characters of your own ethnicity/skin tone now because any attempt to would be racist regardless of the lack of intent to offend?
No but as a member of a minority (im southeast asian by birth) who also got subjected to a lot of racist crap as well during my HS years I can also appreciate and differentuate nuance and intent from a persons actions before throwing someone to the proverbial fire.
Knee jerk reactions of this kind helps no one and just further increases division. Life is seldom simple.
Just to be clear, my opinion is a lot of people in this thread – yourself included – are actively attempting to dilute and/or defend racist bullshit, and that’s not okay. Take all that effort of rationalising racism as a not so bad thing and put it towards something productive, like not rationalising racism as a not so bad thing.
Alright, tell me how darkening her skin colour was racist. I’m not trolling. I just think people sometimes ignore what racism actually is in the first place.
I mean, this is literally in the news today and these bros are trying to pretend there’s nothing wrong with ‘blacking up’…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-18/fraser-annings-alt-right-staff-have-secret-plan-nazis/11025260
This is the attitude said by people who are uncultured but think they are, and there are more and more coming into this world.
Malicious and racist intent is racist, loving intent is done as a sign of respect and ideology. Learn the difference. If you are easily offended by this stuff, you are in fact the racist one. No one thought it was racist until YOU brought it up.
You need to look up what actual blackface is and stop makig a fool of yourself.
Can’t tell if you’re taking the piss, or being ironic with zero self-awareness…
Only that’s not the discussion (Argument) people are having, Blackface is bad everyone can agree to that, this is not Blackface end of argument (Discussion)
It’s not a matter of PC, per se. Twitch is an American corporation – to Americans, blackface is indisputably bad and – as Kotaku’s article makes clear – something that they’ve had a terrible history with and can’t afford to run risks on. Minstrelsy was pretty foul, as was Jim Crow artwork, so it’s pretty understandable (minstrelsy was inextricably predicated in and linked to slavery and systemic racism).
Equally, the people posting here are quite right. A Lithuanian cosplayer, as in residing in Lithuania as opposed to a Lithuanian American or Lithuanian Australian, doesn’t have the same cultural reference points as the US or UK do.
Her confusion is understandable and legitimate. As others have pointed out; there was no intent to demean or disrespect anyone – she was simply trying to replicate the character as closely as possible; that includes skin tone (as I’m sure it would if she were to add pale makeup in order to better emulate Emma Frost).
Very few things are simply “black and white” and I really think you should consider the historical and cultural implications of a thing before simply saying “X is bad, end of argument”.
Edit: All of the above stated, once someone *knows* that blackface is likely to cause offence, ideally they no longer attempt it. I’m never quite sure why (even if by an individual’s personal moral code they think they’re in the right) they would do something offensive to others even though the alternate option is open to them, with no detriment. By way of example, nobody would criticise this cosplayer for *not* attempting to darken her skin, so why bother?
Fuck, an actual measured response in here. People wear me out on both sides of this with their “PC blah blah blah” and “Everyone is a racist!!”
I think this is the right line of thinking. People shouldn’t be crucified for not initially understanding the context behind something and why it might cause offense to others. Your example is such a good one too! Just an all-round thanks from me.I knew going in that this would be one of Kotaku AU’s trashfire comment sections and I was disappointed to be proven right.
Oh, I get it… Only when everyone agrees with your view would you not dismiss the particular comment section as a ‘trashfire’.
It’s probably because Kotaku australia isn’t a cesspool of dung flinging or robotic agreement with issues. we actually have commenters that can disagree and debate without resorting bad insults(in most cases) here.
Except it wasnt…. there was no attempt to ridicule or make fun of “black culture” here. It was one cosplayer taking that extra step to make her costume look more authentic to the character.
If there was some malice involved then sure i would be with you up and arms as well… but context and intent is just as important here. Or are we saying that cosplay should only be restricted to characters of your own skin color? That seems a much mored divisive stance in my books..
your right but that is not what they are actually saying anyway it’s only white’s using dark makeup that is offensive they would cheer “stunning and brave” if a black person was doing the reverse.
I would caution you not to continue down this path of trying to understand the extremes of PC culture, ahead lies madness and buffoonery run while you still can.
I mean… the entire tone of your post here is biased and verging on the ‘red pill’ bollocks people blather on reddit. Either way, though, I’m fairly certain that “White Chicks” was not called “stunning and brave” by … anyone.
I’ll upvote you for the laugh you got from me with the “White Chicks” comment. However, “White Chicks” wasn’t panned for being racially offensive (only for offending the art of film itself). If it was reversed and called “Black Chicks”, then it would never have made it past scripting, though it still would have been just as cringey).
and the tone of your post is egotistical and shallow, drawing a line from blackface to shoe polish and minstrel shows and therefore racism…
that is some deep thought be careful not to drown.
just like the people projecting racism onto this “white chicks” cosplay you are projecting red-pilled redditers onto me….
i do not understand what your trying to say about me. are you calling me a racist??? can you be a bit clearer please.
Nah, you’ve already done a good job of that yourself, illexi. I’m sure that wasn’t your intention though… (see what I did there? 😉 )
instead of dribbling shit into the comment section how about you try making a clear coherent argument for why this girls makeup is racist without falling back on “blackface = racist” go ahead i’ll wait.
but you can’t because that is as far as your mind takes the argument, same way you call me a racist for defending something that is not racist, it’s the same as calling someone racist for liking pancakes it makes no sense.
I don’t think it’s blackface, dude. She was trying to look like the character. No mockery or denigration involved at all.
almost as good as you projecting racism into a situation that has none.
stay fucking woke bro
Explain real quick why blackface is offensive to black people in Lithuania.
If she was American – fair enough, it verboten in America for good reasons. Anywhere else it’s just not a thing. It’s a cultural taboo specific to American culture.
Ahhh… so it’s only racist if there are black people in Lithuania. Right, gotcha. 😉
I mean that’s literally not how racism works and blackface isn’t specifically an American-only thing, but okay…
> blackface isn’t specifically an American-only thing …
Why would it be a thing in Lithuania? What tradition of minstrelsy do they have where non-white people were popularly and mean-spiritedly caricatured so that there would be that association in the minds of people of color in Lithuania? It’s like every other parochial expecting you to adhere to their cultural mores despite how obtuse they are.
yeh that guy never replies btw he just come in here to stir up shit then run off, you’re like the 4th person to challenge him the most you will get is him sliding into your notifications somewhere else in the comments making another dumb statement.
Yeah I’m usually one that hates when people jump to crying about “pOlItIcAl CoRrEcTnEsS GoNe MaD!” but I really fail to see the harm here. I’ve found myself following a few cosplayers on social media lately, and recently there have been a group of US cosplayers haranguing Russian cosplayers for colouring their skin. The Russians arguing back that their culture differs from the US, where colouring their skins its not considered offensive. This of course devolves into arguments about US imperialists forcing their world view upon differing countries or cultures versus Russia’s discrimination of minorities and the LGBT community. Messy.
Ultimately I don’t consider what Martsinkevich did as objectively offensive; she’s not “blacking up” to mock an entire race or culture, she’s not engaging in buffoonery, her intention is to replicate the appearance of a fictional character as close as possible. What she is doing is pretty far removed from minstrelism in both execution and intent.
So if someone is attempting to cosplay a black character and people are calling it “Blackface”, a term which is used to describe the act of using make up to create a caricature or stereotyped representation of black people, does that mean the character themselves is a caricature or stereotype? Isn’t it just as bad for white people to cosplay black characters without make-up since it’s “whitewashing” them?
There is a time and place to call people out for “blackface”, but when someone is respectfully representing an established character of colour without delving into stereotyping or caricatures then what’s the harm?
Why, appropriation of the culture of course.
Cosplaying black characters without makeup would be considered “cultural appropriation”. Check your wokeness.
it’s either cultural appropriation or its racist stereotyping, there is no other no nuance no context. To the extremists in the PC culture war it’s simply a (pardon the pun) black and white issue.
Twitch’s reaction to this is disgusting.
Rough deal.
I did blackface but I didn’t mean it in a bad way I AM IMMUNE FROM CRITICISM
lets pretend your not being sarcastic and also straw manning almost everyone in here at the same time.
you have worn blackface and you didn’t mean it in a bad way, okay well we still need a lot more detail for context before any reasonable person could make a judgement. Only a moron would come to a conclusion either way with so little information.
If you’re aware of the sensitive nature of the topic, which all of us here are, you just don’t do it. If you’re a young streamer who genuinely doesn’t know that it’s offensive to a lot of people, now you know.
So… I am guessing that the issue people have here is that an innocent person has been temporarily been banned from an online community for something she didn’t realise could be considered as wrong. Is that right? Fair enough.
Now, I imagine this must seem like an “agree to disagree” politicalesque debate to some of you, but if YOU KNOW that something is offensive to someone, why on earth would you condone more of it? There are so many comments here actually DEFENDING blackface!?
Even American movie producers and execs are (slowly) beginning to make progress on the topic of characters being played by people better suited to portraying any given race. And if you are losing the moral high ground to Hollywood, I suggest you have a proper think about it all.
my knee jerk reaction to not conforming to Hollywood is “phew”.
to hit the heart of your argument i have made this statement several times but moderators keep deleting them i think i’m being reported or something, if you put makeup on your face to cosplay etc etc the above example, then you have done nothing wrong and nothing racist.
you point out quite rightly that some people will find this offensive so why defend doing it, because the people that are offended are the ones with a problem here and it is completely in their own minds, they have projected racism based on “blackface” and all that goes with it onto her. Being offended is so subjective that it is completely meaningless not only that but as the person cos playing you have absolutely no control over what someone will or will not find offensive so it’s a very bad road to start down.
Most people just won’t do it once they know that it offends people, but other people like me do not accept “that offends me” to be an argument against an action, and especially not in this case where your not even offended by something she did the offences is based on the actions of other people in history most of whom are probably dead now and you projecting what they did onto her. The “offended people” most of whom seem to be white lefty’s ironically are the ones that need to change, realise that the offence is completely in their own minds and get over it.
It’s like your asking to ban Austrians from having a mustache because well…. i’m sure you know what i’m saying but i don’t want to potentially type a word that automatically gets your comment deleted.
I can see the irony in “white lefties” like myself speak up regarding race related acts such as these – that acknowledgement itself backs up the historical fact that white people have always had more power over people of colour – but I disagree with the argument that we have no right to call out bad white behaviour.
For what it’s worth, most people that don’t see a problem with wearing make-up to portray a black character are white. Whodathunkit?!
Here’s the thing… Just as sexual, physical and verbal abusive male behaviour needs to be called out by other men, I think racist or questionably anti-POC related acts need to be called out by white people, especially males. It’s not for credit, it’s not a white saviour complex, it’s to shoot down morally pathetic traits that have run rampant for far too long.
In this case, and other times, the perpetrator is essentially innocent. She hasn’t dressed up as a black person to mock black people. Therefore, I don’t agree with the ban. But keeping the content up, allowing her followers to normalise “blackface” undoes all the work people have done to shed society historically racist behaviour such as minstrel shows that spread racial stereotypes.
I feel like it has to be spelled out to a lot of readers here. Minstrel shows were performed by white people, to white audiences, mocking black people. They occured long after slavery was abolished and the effects of acts such as these last a lot longer than any given performance’s running time.
Consider this: audiences see Al Jolson live in a theatre, they laugh at him playing a poor and illiterate black man, they buy his albums, they ridicule black people in the street to entertain their friends, they go see his films, they buy his posters and the behaviour continues on and on and on. Black people are made fun of, their children watch their own parents get made fun of, they tell their grandchildren about these events and the effects continue on and on and on. Cause and effect: both are generational. So don’t say the only offended people died long ago.
My great grandmother used to get flour thrown at her when she left the house by white, “innocent” kids. Yes, they didn’t know what they were doing because their white parents never told them that it was wrong to make fun of someone’s darker skin. So, in 2019, I don’t condemn people who do not realise what they’re doing is wrong but I will to take the time to explain that what they are doing does not help.
And I’ll finish with this: This entire article and comments section is about a person oblivious to history. Just imagine how many people can actually acknowledge the pain these acts cause and yet still choose to condone such behaviour.
here we go again another leftist with a pathological need to light the virtue signal.bad white behaviour.
In this case, and other times, the perpetrator is essentially innocent.
So you need to police behavior that is not happening in this case… and she isn’t essentially innocent she is just innocent, your trying to seem like a reasonable voice of moderation but your not and i’m not falling for it.For what it’s worth, most people that don’t see a problem with wearing make-up to portray a black character are white. Whodathunkit?!
only if your looking at the raw number if you look at it as a percentage the only section of the population that exceeds 50% disapproval is whites, the last time blackface was a in the news blacks had only a 30% disapproval so actually your wrong if you correct for the fact that whites outnumber blacks.
your third paragraph starts with “Here’s the thing…” etc etc it’s total nonsense men have always called out inappropriate behavior from other men, the only thing that has changed is the amount of bullshit added into the inappropriate column.
“Keeping the content up leads to normalising blackface”…. load of shit unless you can see the future or have a time machine this is just speculation and very cynical speculation your view seems to be that white people are inherently racist and just seeing someone darken their skin with makeup will lead to shoe polish and racial vilification. I wish i could believe your not serious.
You do not need to spell out anything about minstrel shows everyone knows what it is your just using the premise of explaining the historical context to shoehorn in your own mental gymnastics regarding generational oppression which is just not true, my grandmother lived through the blitz in England and that doesn’t make me a victim of WW2, stop infantalising black people you dirty racist.So don’t say the only offended people died long ago
not what i said buddy, i said the people whose actions are being projected onto her (the people in minstrel shows) are dead. It was an attempt to make you realise that your racism necromancy is stupid but that completely failed apparently.
It is sad that your grandmother was treated that way, my grandmother who was white and immigrated from England was also treated poorly even though she was a child fleeing a warzone, now we are both aware that our grandmothers didn’t have perfect lives and were mistreated by other humans do you think we could stick to the topic at hand.
And I’ll finish with this: It has become somewhat muddled but i think you will find that nobody in here nor the girl in the article are ignorant of history, in fact i’m pretty sure she made the point that historically “blackface” has no place in her country and Americans shouldn’t pass off their own guilt onto all white people. So as usual the person disagreeing with me hasn’t understood anything correctly and has instead filtered everything through a biased lens to reach the wrong conclusion. You ask who could condone such actions knowing the harm they cause, and this is great because just using 1 more letter and forming the word caused might have woken you up to the opposing argument, nobody here is ignorant of history or condoning harmful behavior. You seem to think that flour being thrown at your grandmother before you were even born has somehow effected you, which leads you to the equally false idea that racist caricatures of black people done by people who are already dead effects this girls makeup. The entire problem here is that people are trying to tell you this girl did nothing wrong yet you cannot help yourself and you resurrect the corpse of minstrel shows and staple it onto an innocent girls cosplay while also saying you think she’s not a bad person just ignorant. Either what she did is blackface and it is inherently bad because history, or history is irrelevant because it was the actions of other people that she is not responsible for and she has been mistreated.
Alright. I do not have “a pathological need to light the virtue signal”. I’m not out on the street picketing and crying mercy and I’m not on some keyboard rampage telling people to shove their own ideas. I was responding directly to an article just like you. Everyone gets a say. Ok mate? Pity for you, you can’t tell that I’m actually listening to what you have to say, but you only respond by attempting to shoot me down because you don’t recognise proper discussion or empathise with anyone else but yourself.
What is so wrong with being sensitive to other people’s feelings? Don’t answer that. I know you couldn’t care less.
PS. Don’t tell me that I’m the one who needs to learn something. You misspelled you’re about a dozen times.
Firstly i actually made it quite clear that i empathise with your grandmother someone i don’t even know.What is so wrong with being sensitive to other people’s feelings
when you infantalise them and turn them into you, i doubt your grandmother told you about her hardships and mistreatment to teach you how to be a victim and throw shade at an innocent women who just wants to cosplay.What is so wrong with being sensitive to other people’s feelings
are you for real right now not only are you racebaiting but you also like shaming people with a less than optimal education, you sir are a disgrace.
everyone does get a say…. including people who know you’re wrong.
proper discussion precludes someone shooting down your idea’s? that is news to me but then again i’m not as highly educated as you are so clearly i need to sit down and shutup
what ever happened to everyone gets a say? you must of meant everyone who agrees with me gets a say, oh and people with correct grammar…. but anyone who has poor grammar well they should just get back to cleaning my office or serving some fast food that about right?
wow so this chicks a racist because history and shit but your not a howling bigot classist that looks down on other people of a lesser social class?
My comment got deleted for being “inappropriate”. Not sure why, though, as it was a serious point and there was an actual discussion going stemming from it.
Edit: Let me reiterate my point more precisely in case my snark offended someone:
Are we now to understand that cosplayers will be labelled as racist if they have light skin and cosplay as a character with significantly darker skin, even if it’s an attempt to respectfully reproduce that character’s appearance? Will the same judgement be applied to darker-skinned cosplayers who attempt to do the same for significantly lighter-skinned characters if they artificially lighten their appearance? And where do those with a mixed skin tone, such as my son who is right in the middle, fit in? Would he be judged differently depending on if he were to fully emulate the appearance of either and lighter and darker complexioned character?
it’s a shame your probably not going to get any other responses and i’m unlikely to be of any help.
The fact is that the control left is never going to care if someone with dark skin lightens themselves, and as for your son well nobody knows it would probably be different every time he cos played and it would be a risk even repeating the same one because at any given moment on any slow news day he may become a sacrifice to the wokeness gods. My advice would be tell your son to dress however he likes and if people say I’m offended you say “that is unfortunate but i don’t care about your moral outrage”.
i’m told that it is significantly easier to navigate your life through the current oppression Olympics if you just never apologise and tell the control leftists to get bent. Because even if you do apologise they don’t care, they take it as a confession not an apology and will try to use it as a club to beat you into the mud.
like i said i doubt i will be of any help but i tried.
I thought forcing cultural mores upon other cultures was colonialism.
Don’t forget to ban crossplayers for the discrimination transgender people face, straight men who enjoy fashion, lesbians who wear makeup, and god help you if you play dnd as a non human.
Sure, respect and appreciation are important but the only offensive thing here is how poorly the highlighter matches the new skin tone.
oh damn you just wrecked… i hope she never reads that her highlighter didn’t match, it will make being smeared as a racist seem like a nice comfy dream =)
Can i ask why my comment was deemed inappropriate? Arn’t i allowed to call out American culture in an article about Americans imposing their culture on the rest of the world?
As an American and Australian, I see nothing wrong with calling this out. Our PC crowd really do force their identitarian views on others and then slander them as bigots and racists if they don’t fall in line and convert to the indentitarian ideology. And the msm allow it by only reporting on issues that seen to victimise minorities rather than look at issues through an unbiased lens. They’d rather see things as literal black and white instead of approaching them from colourblind standpoint and simply reporting the facts.
i wouldn’t bother mate i have had 3 comments yeeted already, it’s just Kotaku mods showing a bias and you won’t get them to change.
you’re not allowed to disagree with the woke narrative, but as long as you’re calling people racists n shit go ahead be as rude as u like. :S
You know it’s bad when you start being bothered more by biased moderation than you are by the people calling you a racist, etc.
I dunno how many times I’ve seen pretty benign comments go missing, yet in the exact same conversation thread others are pretty much verbally abusing people and their comments go completely untouched all because their opinion is apparently the ‘correct’ one.
Kotaku’s moderation makes no sense lately, particularly on topics like this. But calling the community at large racists is okay apparently.
Alright fellas, you’ve literally reached peak-preciousness now. XD
Nice to see that you only came to prod other commenters rather than contribute to the conversation. The point is that Kotaku has a habit of deleting comments that don’t agree with it’s narrative, and then claim that the comments violated the “guidelines”. However, when comments from the other side do nothing but attack the first group for their views and their defense of such, or do nothing but deliberately rock the boat just for the sake of doing so (ie. your comment above), Kotaku tends to allow it, setting a glaring double standard. Hence my previous comment regarding “Rules for me but not for thee”.
Perhaps you don’t care about the actual discussion, in which case nothing I say can change that.You’re not allowed to disagree with the woke narrative
Yet 80% (49/61, yes I counted) are disagreeing with the article in some form and/or claiming that is not offensive blackface? Sure, keep feeling like this is a progressive echo chamber though.
And for primary comments on the front page only:
There were nine comments that disagreed with the article (blackface isn’t bad/not a problem; cosplayer did nothing wrong), and voting was 76% positive (9% deviation).
Two comments were in support of the article, and voting was 26% positive (7% deviation)
None of this is a surprising result, the KotakAU community is representative of Australia in that they’re basically shit at discussing issues of race without leaning into racism, and then chucking a wobbly when that tendency gets pointed out.None of this is a surprising result, the KotakAU community is representative of Australia in that they’re basically shit at discussing issues of race without leaning into racism, and then chucking a wobbly when that tendency gets pointed out.
Counterpoint.
None of the comments demonstrated any racism what so ever, Perhaps the Kotaku AU community is full of people who don’t get offended on behalf of others over everything and are sane people.
Perhaps the polygon or Kotaku US comments are more your style.
“Anyone who disagrees with me is a racist!” – Sound logic.
I thought we as a society had come to the general conclusion that painting your face to resemble a person of colour was bad regardless of context. Because at the end of the day, once you’ve had your fun pretending, you can take that paint off and go back to living without the prejudice that comes from being a person of colour. Seems I was a little too hopeful there…
Society is not the Resetera forums.
LOL, don’t get me started. After my ban expires I won’t be commenting on anything remotely connected to race, gender, sexuality or privilege ever again.
Whole shitload of comments in this place are supporting someone going blackface for entertainment i.e., directly supporting the maintenance of a racist activity and culture. In other words, leaning into racism.
That includes you with your shitty false equivalence about the meaning and impact of white and blackface – there’s no parity between the two and pretending there is plants you firmly in that leaning towards racism field.
while i will admit that whiteface and blackface are not equivalent, you think that this girl did something wrong so nothing you say has any validity.
if you cant even see how stupid the premise “blackface is inherently racist” is then you should probably find a different more regressive platform to frequent so that your not offended by logic and reason.and then chucking a wobbly when that tendency gets pointed out.
“If you don’t agree with me you are racist”
Wow, What a stellar argument.
Nice ad hominem though. 1/10 for effort.
im replying here because i couldn’t reply to your actual post.
quoting yourself?? can anyone say narcissist
To be clear i don’t care if you call me a racist, you do more damage to yourself calling someone a racist when they aren’t and with no evidence than you do to the person you “calling out”.
The statement i made is in no way chucking a wobbly, i was sincerely trying to help you the Resetera forums would be a much more comfortable home for you.
Wow, you really doubled down on the statistics. Unfortunately I’m genuinely surprised by the numbers, I thought it was kind of accepted that it was a Not Good Thing To Do.
is blackface generally not a good thing to do, well it all depends and this comment section is a pretty good example, not a single person here has defended blackface in a racist context if this was an article about somebody doing something actually racist rather than some clickbait about twitch mistreating one of its streamers over America’s guilty conscience you would be unlikely to find anyone defending them. As it stands you have people falling over themselves to project racism onto this situation and i don’t even know why, i have no idea what people gain from manufacturing racism.
I like how you guys are trying to make this an ‘PC’ American thing, despite the fact that blackface is something that used to happen pretty much anywhere when black and brown peoples were enslaved, oppressed or otherwise held in check by colonial overlords, and it never had altruistic purposes in any of those places.
so that would be a no on the coherent argument then, you will actually fall back on the completely wrong argument of “black makeup = blackface and blackface is inherently racist because history”.
i like how you dance around the actual topic of this comment section being someone who did nothing wrong, and try and use the historical actions of completely different people that neither this girl or I have any connection with to paint us both as racists.
that is some grade A platinum reaching you got there my dude.
Yes, I believe that blackface, regardless of intent, is a bad thing. In a perfect world it wouldn’t be, but we do not exist in a social vacuum and these things, benign as they may seem to many here, have very strong parallels in the history of oppression and racial violence. The overwhelming view that I have heard from people of colour commenting on this topic is that seeing people pretend to be black is considered insensitive and offensive in the light of cultural history, and recent history at that.
We still live in a world where many, many people of colour find their skin colour a disadvantage – one that opens them up to prejudice, discrimination and violence. Black people are often distrusted or judged in a way that white people are not. For a white person to “black up” and use black skin as a novelty, or a spectacle, or to show off talent in cosplay, is a way for white people to benefit from black skin. Then, when they are done, they can take it all off and go back to being white and having the social comfort that comes with that. It’s using black skin, making a spectacle of it, and benefiting from the look, without having to deal with any of the baggage.
I’m not one to get offended on behalf of people who don’t seem to have an issue with said topic. Using a recent hot-button topic, the number of journalists calling for a Sekiro easy mode so as to cater for people with physical disabilities is not an argument I espouse, because the majority of commentary I’ve seen from the people in question is that they do not believe it is necessary, so I won’t use them as my argument chips when saying whether an easy mode is a valid change or not. In contrast, the vast majority of commentary I’ve seen from people of colour regarding black face is that it is a Very Bad Thing.
My confusion is that, when you have a group of people who are telling you that it is offensive, why would you want to continue to do the thing? Is it such a huge injustice to be told not to paint your face black?
well i think we have a fundamental disagreement on this issue, i believe you should be allowed to do whatever the fuck you want as long as you are not infringing on the rights of others, keeping in mind that it is only this instance of blackface i am defending and that nothing in this girls actions that i am aware of hurt anyone.
i was not denying the historical significance of blackface or that some black people might feel the way you stated above i’m sure it is true, but it is all projection the girl has done nothing racist, no stereotyping no caricatures nothing bigoted at all. And i think it improper to punish someone else for feelings you project onto their actions.
I’m going to beat this point like a dead horse because otherwise some jackass calls you a racist, I am well aware of blackface in a historical context and its implications and i am also well aware that simply wearing dark makeup will probably offend some people on the basis that they project certain things onto this action. This girl did not do anything bigoted and yet some people are offended and that is unfortunate.
It is not a great injustice but it is an injustice to be told that because somebody got offended all on their own by something you did then you should not be allowed to do that thing, again it comes back to the principal that if your not hurting anyone or infringing on others rights then you can do whatever you like. I suspect we just have different idea of what liberty and freedom mean, and your is wrong btw.
Your clearly able to empathise with one side of this argument and i can too but have you tried to empathise with the girl being vilified in the media right now as a racist, i cant think of many things worse than being a racists, racists are disgusting and to be called one when you are not is very hurtful and its a lot worse than the projected feelings of discrimination people have in this case. Letting people blame someone for the historical actions of others is a slippery slope my friend.
@illexi commenting here because thread got too far in.
I haven’t seen anything about this that vilifies her as a bigoted racist, nor do I think she is, more that she was misguided and oblivious. I can understand her confusion, but it’s her actions from now that define her. If you attack someone for doing something wrong when they don’t know any better, that is not at all constructive. You teach them why it’s wrong, then they can make their own choice. She’s been told that painting her face black has questionable connotations that can upset people, the ball is in her court now.
Also, let’s be clear that the actions taken against her were by an American based company, not the government, and the actions are not legal in nature. The sum of her “punishment” is a temporary ban of her account. This isn’t an argument about “liberty and freedom” as you put it.
You say that you believe if you’re not hurting anyone or infringing on others rights then you can do whatever you like, but apparently it’s you who gets to decide whether people are hurt or not. That’s some pretty subjective “freedom”.
your not operating with all the facts though my dude. Most of the annoyance or frustration that you picking up on and mocking is actually doe to something you can’t even see and that is the huge number of comments being deleted for no clear reason.
not abusive comments but comments disagreeing and it’s not just a handful of comments because all the replies disappear as well it’s a shitload of discussion that has been removed for what appears to be preservation of the progressive narrative. it’s nice of you to count the comments but by the time you showed up half the discussion had been deleted.
I wasn’t making any comment about the nature of the posts that were deleted, because I didn’t see them, so can’t say either way. My point was that in this comment section, and many others, the overwhelming consensus of the posts that are left untouched were contrary to that of the opinion of the article (and often quite vehemently so), so it’s not as if the moderators are trying to quash dissent or opinions that don’t agree with the article, and claiming so is disingenuous. I’ll
clearly as the moderators were deleting dissenting posts and not the others which some were actually offensive then it seems obvious that someone was trying to quash dissent. you cant see the deleted posts i understand that but what i am telling you is some moderator swept through like a plague quashing any dissenting posts they could figure out a reason to delete.
and yes the sensible opinion is the majority opinion and if i gave you the impression i think Kotaku is a some progressive leftist thought bubble im sorry but it wasn’t my intention
Can’t cosplayers just cosplay without painting their skin? Doesn’t really phase me given the context of the characters anyway.
There’s a gigantic difference between dressing up as a video game chatacter in 2019 over mocking a race.Can’t cosplayers just cosplay without painting their skin?
People wouldn’t think twice about painting their skin green to dress up as The Hulk, or purple to dress up as Widowmaker, why should there be any problem with that?
No human race is green or purple, but I don’t really care at all. This isn’t real blackface anyway
Put your hand up if you are one of the people bending over backwards to justify her actions and you are a person of colour.
*munch munch munch*
Man, all this arguiing and I haven’t even added my two cents…
I’m gonna stay outta this one though. Good work though all of you, lots of interesting stuff to read here 🙂
You’re a wise smurf 😀
Sometimes, you just know somethings interesting, but not worth getting into…
Why is it ok for there to be a movie like “white chicks” (two black guys clearly dressing up as white girls with white face) and for this to be completely acceptable in society yet something like this girl trying to accurately cosplay a character is thrown under the nearest bus…
Suddenly it’s almost racist to just be born white.
Unfortunately it all goes back to collective cultural guilt about the black slave trade. Anything that mocks or denigrates white people is seen as ‘just desserts’ while anything that could remotely be construed as being dismissive of the suffering black slaves went through is seen as outrageous and racist. Will we ever get over this? I’d give it at least another hundred years or so.
Piss off. The best you can come up with is a single film across a century of blackface in cinema to gaslight how bad whites have it.
@zambayoshi that collective cultural guilt has a lot to do with sustained endemic racism against POC in predominantly white countries. We’re not viewing these activities in historical isolation, they’re part of a continuous and continuing cultural model.
epidemic racism…. your not even living in reality
or maybe your cos playing??
as an off the wall crazy SJW
*sigh* What a trash fire. Can we attempt to have a nuanced conversation for once? Seeing and acknowledging both sides of the issue instead of zealotly defend the side we feel closest to? I’ll try to give it a go:
-Yes, blackface is mainly an American phenomenon rooted in their brutal history.
-No, this doesn’t mean that “not being American” can forever excuse anybody from doing blackface with harmful intention.
-Yes, blackface is offensive and harmful. Pretending to place the burden on the victims to not get offended is savagely unfair and often, the argument of people who have never been discriminated against, systemically.
-No, this particular case doesn’t actually seem to be a case of blackface as the cosplayer seemed genuinely confused and additionally, she didn’t go for the more offensive aspect of blackface such as caricaturising facial features by modifying her nose, lips, etc.
-Yes, Twitch is a privately owned platform and as such, reserves the right to extend or deny their service as they see fit.
-No, it is impossible to expect that systems designed to parse dozens of thousands of accounts and their possible ToS infractions in an automated or semi-automated way can deal with fringe cases such as this one with well-considered nuance.
-Yes, a good deal of blame for this mistake lies on the (most likely well-intending) people who reported her and were unable to realise that they were overreacting.
-No, we can’t and shouldn’t simply pretend to go the other way and just allow all instances of blackface, in order to spare the few cases were it inconveniences somebody who is innocent. Being as objectively moral as we can, we must choose the route that causes the least amount of harm possible. In our increasingly connected world, there will be fewer and fewer people genuinely ignorant about what blackface is and why it is a bad thing than members of a whole “race” of people affected by the kind of pervasive racism that true blackface has helped thrive since it was invented and widely used.
What we can actually do is have the nuance in our conversation and the way we deal with this news that the souless corporation couldn’t have in principle. Understand that there will always be people trying to polarise the discussion: those who want to use things like these to prove that they deserve the freedom to offend whomever they want and those who trying to counteract them, recoil too hard in the opposite direction.
If we keep a reasonable and nuanced discourse, we might help improve the course of society to be less reactionary whilst still seeking justice, compassion and equality for all kinds of people.
So, while I repudiate and condemn blackface, I believe that this particular incident is not a case of it and that this woman was mistakingly targeted. I repudiate and condemn harassing her over this and hope she’s able to have an informative conversation with a compassionate person who helps her understand why culturally, especially within the entertainment industry, blackface is a thing reviled by many and which should be avoided even incidentally. It’s kind of crap, but we can thank cruel bigots for that one. Hopefully, one day, when we’ve truly defeated racism, people will be able to cosplay as anybody they want without the suspicion of racial ridicule being a thing.
An actual thoughtful and nuanced take. I agree, it doesn’t seem to have been malicious but ignorant and the rules are there to discourage it either way, as they should. It is a temporary ban, lessons are hopefully learned which is how ignorance hopefully gets cured.
Well, that about sums it up!
Saved me having to add anything! =)
Thanks for being a voice of reason in all this 🙂
Imagine how much worse it would be if Burnside was still around.
MyPetMonkey was worse by an order of magnitude back in the day…
Wait is he actually gone??
I don’t want to bloody mary him into existence, but his last comment was like September 30th or thereabouts.
great response Pylgrim somewhat lengthy but still great, i want to make it clear that i am not attacking you but something in your comment did strike me as being very odd.Understand that there will always be people trying to polarise the discussion: those who want to use things like these to prove that they deserve the freedom to offend whomever they want
i did not see anyone doing this in this comment section so if you wouldn’t mind replying could you tell me to whom your referring with this section here.
And might I just add for the record,
Cobra Kai season 2 is out in 1 weeks time 🙂
This has absolutely nothing to do with this topic, but the show was just that awesome this needs to be said 😀
is that the youtube thing where they cosplay as netflix and produce tv shows? i heard it was racist……why i bothered to listen is anyone’s guess.
i wasn’t aware they had anything worth watching maybe i will check it out.
Netflix wishes they had made Cobra Kai 🙂
Seriously, they do. They actually passed on it lol
Bet they’re kicking themselves now…
maybe Netflix can produce a new show where they make the executives kick themselves for 40 minutes each time they make a mistake.
“Hello this is netflix youre greenlit!”
<3
Seriously?
1. She is not American
2. She is cosplaying
3. There was no racist intentions
Grow up Twitch.
lol i had a comment removed because i showed that this company (pedestrian) dont seem to have a problem advertising Chris Lilley doing blackface
u mean this one
https://www.pedestrian.tv/film-tv/chris-lilley-lunatics-netflix/
White people…
So for the people who think this is ok, would it be ok for a white person from any country in the world to put sticky tape on their eyes to make themselves look more asian if they were doing a Bruc Lee cosplay?
i think it would look ridiculous, but if all they are doing is cos playing as Bruce Lee from X movie then sure why not. The same way this girls makeup does not constitute a “problem” because she isn’t doing anything racist i would assume the same would apply to your hypothetical.
Seems like this happens every time someone decides to black themselves up. Let me spell it out real clearly for those in the back.
It’s racist. Don’t do it. Don’t defend it – directly or indirectly. Don’t get annoyed by it. Just move on with your day.
This is not an extension of PC culture, or outrage culture, or whatever other pejorative label people feel the need to attach to these discussions in lieu of a cogent argument – it’s good old fashioned 1900s racism, and should be put where it belongs – in the past.
PS. “offence is in the intent!” – nope, sorry. It’s in both the intent AND the effect, simultaneously. … if offence were to be solely measured in intent then anyone could just do whatever the fuck they want and then feign ignorance to ignore the consequences.
So i assume the next time a dark-skinned cosplayer applies makeup to have white skin you’ll also say they can’t do it because its racist
You wouldn’t want to be inconsistent with your standards.
That’s a ridiculous false equivalency.
Concentrate on your own standards.
Not its not.
You cant say its not okay for a white person to cosplay a black character and then say a black person is fine to cosplay as a white character.
That’s a double standard.
Either its all okay or none of its okay.
Dont bother man, they dont get it and just claim ‘false equivalency’ when it shows their hypocritical opinions.
Hypocritical? lol love to hear you try to explain that one away. Dismiss my opinion rather than engaging with it if you’d like mate, totally up to you. Feel free to just ask if you’d like also.
tropic thunder almost nobody gave a shit when RDJ “blacked up” must be that patriarchy victimising this girl because shes well a girl
Look, I hear you. But there isn’t a historically offensive context for people wearing white skinned make up as a performer. If there was I would completely agree with you…but there isn’t. Saying one is exactlylike the other, and thus both instances should be treated the same, is a clear false equivalence. It’s not as simple as one rule for everyone dude.
This is why, you do mental gymnastics to ‘prove’ its a false equivalence.
Anything where there is a clear double standard you go “well history did this so its not the same”.
Hypocrisy.
What mental gymnastics? There’s a clear distinction between the two.
Do you mean hypocrisy in the sense that I’m not bothered by White Chicks (aside from it being a shit movie anyway), but see this as problematic?
You want to ignore the context on one, and bring up the context of the other.
Hypocrisy.
Piss off.
@m2d2 lol whatever mate. YOU are the one ignoring context.
This thread is just the worst.
It has made me agree with and upvote djbear a bunch of times. Just terrible.
in lieu of a cogent argument….. like offence being both in the intent and effect…
great so when you say effect you mean how any random person may choose to interpret shit, something that nobody has any control over, i find your name offensive because i hate it when i see 2 r’s next to each other. Exact same idea my friend.
stop calling people who aren’t racist racists its a disgusting thing to do and you should be ashamed of yourself for calling this girl a racist, your a disgrace.
If you read what I wrote you’ll notice it says “it’s” racist. Not her. It’s a subtle distinction, I know, but it’s there.
you are correct derrick, but i didn’t misread your statement i’m just taking into account current cultural norms, while i completely disagree that darkening your face with makeup is even “blackface” therefore your argument wouldn’t hold with me in any case, simply saying what she did is racist is the same as calling her a racist.
I’m glad you took the time to explain that you personally do not think that she is a racist, i apologise for calling you a disgrace and well i didn’t re-read my post but i’m sure i called you other things that i should also apologise for.
sorry.
Holy shitballs this is still going?
I’m about to make breakfast. Anyone want waffles?
Thank you, yes I would love some waffles.
Meanwhile, I’ve been downvoted into auto moderation oblivion. There’s some amusing irony about the people moaning about their posts being deleted and crying censorship then gleefully down-voting people they disagree with into auto-moderation. But hey, it wouldn’t be an internet argument without some delicious hypocracy would it?
Yeah that auto-mod’s always just a few downvotes away hey (my waffles comment above was auto-modded but none of the others in this thread fsr lol). I’ve basically stopped downvoting people entirely as a result – I think it’s only Alex who deals with moderation, and pissing about with individual comments seems an unfair imposition on his clearly busy schedule.
It’s a fundamentally broken system. I’ll only down-vote someone if they’re being rude or aggressive. Even if my opinions are maybe a bit out there for some, I like to think I’m generally pretty non-personal with my arguments and try be respectful (unless I’m not afforded the same courtesy), yet seem to land in it all the time. Meanwhile you’ve got people like illexi above raving till his blue in the face (or fingers) making all sorts of personal attacks *shrug*. It’s not all bad though, being relegated to the sin bin makes me less likely to procrastinate.
I pretty much adopted the stance of “I’ll upvote generously” but I don’t downvote much these days unless it really grinds my gears, to quote Peter Griffin, because auto-moderation really stinks, and I’ve seen it weaponised here against people, including once where (adopts tinfoil hat) where I’m positive someone created a bunch of fake accounts to get me moderated years back?
I think there was suspicions of that happening recently. There were a couple accounts that had never contributed that were spray-fire downvoting comments on articles that were covering a particular topic… I can’t remember what the articles were about now, but they definitely seemed like weaponised fake accounts.
i think i downvoted you i wasn’t aware of any auto mod shit but it explains y i have so much trouble with the moderation around here. I was checking back on this article because i didn’t get a reply from you i had to start a new thread because i couldn’t reply to you on the other one, i did @ u though so you should be able to find it if you want to continue our discussion.
My reply to you got flagged as inappropriate for quoting your own language back at you: including “id*ot”, “m**g” and calling my argument “bulls***”. Not really keen to have a discussion when that’s the level of engagement I can expect.
(I’ve gone overboard with censoring in the hope that it doesn’t get flagged this time)
oh dear i’m so sorry, now i understand how you can view this as if it’s some racist incident you’re incredibly fragile i will try and remember this in the future and not use naughty words.
i suppose it doesn’t really matter since your only counter argument is always some version of “but ppl got offended” which is not an argument it’s a scapegoat.
I’m sorry your comment got deleted i can’t imagine how that feels, oh wait it happens to me all the time and i’m not even using a single profane word sometimes yet i still get deleted you poor dear will you be ok??? come back and tell be how horrible it is when your getting censored without even using a single profanity yet the person your arguing with is.
oh being put in moderation hell because of people mass downvoting you that must have hurt it’s not like that happens to me all the time, i wonder if i check back on other post will i find you downvoting me.
i don’t like the fact you response got nuked before i could read it, if it was up to me i would be treating everyone like adults who can handle the use of profanity, then again you do seem to be making the argument that profanity makes a conversation untenable, so i guess it’s your own fault that your response was deleted if not for people acting so fragile that words they don’t like are harming them then maybe the guidelines wouldn’t be so puritanical.
Man, you love drama don’t you. I couldn’t care less what you think about be or call me online – I’m not offended in the slightest, it just shows me the quality of debate you’re engaging in as you throw around ad hominems and that you’re not interested in having a reasonable discussion, so I don’t really feel like I want to contribute more of my time (the irony that I’m taking time to explain this to you here is not lost on me).
Also, little pro tip: you might want to consider the origin, meaning and your use of the word “m*ng” when trying to provide argument as to why something isn’t racist. The irony is just *chef kissy fingers*
i don’t understand the irony thing at the end but i assume it’s you being a hypocrite as usaul and both complaining about my alleged ad hominem attacks and doing the exact same thing by just calling me a racist.
You seemed to be clearly giving quite the shit about how i choose to speak with you now suddenly you don’t…. okay the whiplash isn’t pleasant but whatever you say.
This is not the first time i have had a discussion on Kotaku and had to deal with someone like you, i write very detailed responses and sometimes use profanity and you use the ad hominem label to ignore everything i’m saying and run away form the discussion and you think somehow that this also maintains your integrity, well i don’t think it does but that’s only my opinion.
I am interested in having a discussion or i would either not talk to you or type out the little 2 line gotcha crap that other people do, i’m not trolling you and you know it. The audacity you have is extraordinary to try and conflate a couple of swear words (AKA ad hominem) with an entire post being nothing but trolling especially given the size of my posts… wow hats off to you.
Essentially i wrote a very large response to you and you found what 3 words in there you didn’t like so now the whole thing is an ad hominem and you are virtuously going to ignore me.
You have also complained that your reply was nuked but when i was being all vocal about my comments getting deleted you basically told me to stop crying about it.
Pro tip assuming you read this: In future don’t waste peoples time and just tell them/me at the start that your going to use whatever excuse you can to run away form the conversation eventually it would be a big help and save me a lot of time writing responses your going to ignore on a whim.
Please point to the time I ever called you, specifically you, “a racist”. I’m so curious where you pulled that from. Quote my text if need be. I didn’t even call the girl in the article racist.
If you want to know why using “m*ng” to insult someone, while simultaneously trying to defend something as “not racially insensitive”, there have a read of this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_idiocy
i knew mong was an insult then when you said you might want to consider the origin, meaning and your use of the word “m*ng” when trying to provide argument as to why something isn’t racist
i assumed it to be a racial insult (so i decided to stop using it) coupled with your licky fingers crap i assumed you to be calling me a racist, i don’t think that to be an unreasonable conclusion given what i thought you were saying.
my thinking: Mogwai finds the use of mong ironic in the context of this debate… mong must be a racial epithet, everyone knows that in 2019 current year anyone using a racial slur is automatically a racist… godamn he’s calling me a racist just like those other jerks he’s just being coy about it.
END SCENE (trips and falls off stage)
Okay, I see how you arrived there, but it did take a little leap in logic from my intention. I was being a bit glib, but I wasn’t trying to infer you were racist. For future reference, if we ever get into another debate regarding potentially racially insensitive material, I don’t believe that doing one racially insensitive thing makes you An Irredeemable Racist (especially not if it’s unintentional or uninformed). Yes, there are people that will jump onto that, but I personally believe that human behaviour, and learning, calls for a little more nuance.
In some weird way, I do appreciate you coming back multiple times to clarify you point of view etc. but I don’t think we’re really going to make any common ground on this topic, so we may as well put this to rest for now.
you’re probably right that this is a good time to call it quits, ill try and upvote in future if i see anyone getting ratio’d as well being on the moderating shit list is a near permanent thing for me, but since i don’t agree with how they moderate this site i should help keep others off the list if i can.
i skimmed through my post and i think i only called you stupid once my dude i think you can probably take it, while there is other profanity in my comment it is not directed at you so i think you being a bit precious don’t you?
Incidentally the waffles were great 🙂 cream and berries on top 😀
Hell yeah, great choice 🙂 maple syrup?
Always!!! With a berry puree as well 😀
Nice! That’s the way 🙂 aw man I want waffles so bad now lol
@weresmurf
maple syrup…… damn glacier monkeys =P
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